by Robert Jensen
September 08, 2005

It may seem self-indulgent to talk about the fears of white people in a white-supremacist society. After all, what do white people really have to be afraid of in a world structured on white privilege? It may be self-indulgent, but it's critical to understand because these fears are part of what keeps many white people from confronting ourselves and the system.

The first, and perhaps most crucial, fear is that of facing the fact that some of what we white people have is unearned. It's a truism that we don't really make it on our own; we all have plenty of help to achieve whatever we achieve. That means that some of what we have is the product of the work of others, distributed unevenly across society, over which we may have little or no control individually. No matter how hard we work or how smart we are, we all know -- when we are honest with ourselves -- that we did not get where we are by merit alone. And many white people are afraid of that fact...

http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?Sectio...

from time immortal- the oppressor has feared becoming the oppressed

But that assumes those you oppress are as depraved as you are - you judge others by how you have behaved. That it's all about payback and revenge - because you are all about payback and revenge.

During the South African Truth and Reconciliation Commission hearings, the very African idea of saying I'm sorry and asking for forgiveness was part of the trials. Admit your guilt, ask for pardon and seek forgiveness - and it was granted..because everything you did to me, was already done to you. Every hurt you caused me, you also caused yourself - because it is the cycle of life and we are all a part of it - because you can't hurt me without also hurting yourself. Because the cycle of hate and retribution can only end when people can lay down their pain and their guilt. You can't oppress me without oppressing yourself. You are locked into your own hate - and your hate will eat you alive.

Think that would work in America?

I'm not at all sure it would.

But in order for it to work anywhere, a total change in overall government and society must take place - paradigms must shift....it's hard to forgive wrongs that are constantly repeated. Resentment and anger builds up - it's unavoidable. The human spirit can only take so much before it shuts down or lashes out.

But the idea is one that is close to my heart - confess, forgive, make right - work together to make it better.

I'm naive enough to believe it possible - it has to be possible...or else we're doomed.

"The fear of being seen, and seen-through, by non-white people."

Allow me to dispel any notion that white people haven't already been "seen through"... The key to survival is to know your oppressors inside and out - how they think, how they will react. In order to do that you have to "see through" them. You know your oppressor better than you know yourself - you have to in order to survive. (Think about battered women if that helps to explain it better - think of the slave/master relationship - if you can't gage your oppressors moods- it could cost you your life)

White people's fear of losing what we have (white privilege)

Good! Lose it! Welcome the loss! Because a whole lot of injustices will be gone as well. How much easier it will be to prevent poverty once the assumption of white superiority is gone! How much easier it will be to prevent the harm brought by racism. Just think about how much of the world's suffering stems from white privilege...and that it can change - it can stop.

I'm starting to preach..so I'll stop.

Hab etwas geduld. Surely we get our brethren to engage us Mädels in a consciousness-raising discussion on this.

but even worse, I find I never was all that patient to begin with...I look in the mirror with more acceptance of self, and can be more honest with what and who I am.

What the world refuses to accept can make it harder to do that...

When you're born an old soul and all that...

I think it elaborates a lot on what the main problems are,
and why it seems so hard to solve the problem of racism in a
society.

ethnic conflict, but globally.

"White" people constitute around 14% and dropping of the global population, and control right about 85% of the world's resources.

Obviously, this is not a sustainable situation, and the transition will be bumpy.

A certain amount of futile mothwing batting against the gentle but inexorable twin zephrys of Mendel and Math is unavoidable, but self-limiting.

The larger and long term question will be have vs have not, and while the ethnic motivation of the post-Katrina operation is undeniable, it is also undeniable that an untold amount of poor white collateral damage was incurred, not to mention victims who belong to the US's largest ethnic minority - the sons and daughters of the indigenous people of the continent, as Peter Camejo calls them.

African-Americans, it seems, have just not been able to keep up in the reproduction arena

So the elites wonder whether the younger insurgent cleansees who defied America and refused to perish, as the inevitable transitions come into full flower, and those young insurgents with them, will seek vengeance or reconciliation.

The African forgiveness concept reminds me of a discussion with a reader of my blog, who accused me of a superiority complex when I said I pitied the American people. What about compassion? She asked.

Compassion, I told her, is for the oppressed. They can be liberated. Pity is what one feels for the oppressor, for he has destroyed not only his soul, but his son's future.

one man's conspiracy is another man's business plan

http://ductapefatwa.blogspot.com

Blog last updated as needed

A "white" *elite is attempting to control the world's resources. In the big picture they don't care for anything other than money and domination. They will stop at nothing to implement their plans.

The "Katrina exercise" was useful in testing tolerance for heterogeneous casualties.

the first test was the disenfranchisement of african-americans in 2000 and 2004. and as we well know, many mainstream types prefer to blame that on nader. i have long said that it (the disfranchisement) was done because conservacrats knew the majority american sheeple would tolerate it and make excuses for it (really just business as usual).
as you put it, the denial reflex is the superglue that holds the shit in place. even those who aren't seduced by outright appeals to white supremacy, aka, the republican party, are seduced by the covert stuff (denise majette, etal). and of course some are falling all over themselves to deny their lying eyes re: the katrina exercise. clearly, it must be an class issue, because we ain't racist no more it would be really nice if our side would stop working with the regime.

With the "Katrina exercise" they've upped the ante. Considerably. Anyone who relies on a salary and cannot live in the style to which they've become accustomed soley on their investment returns needs to get a fuckin' clue. But they won't. They think they are somehow "part of the club."

White folks have yet to grok en masse that they are also in the crosshairs.

only a few scant years after the Voting Rights Act and we find fresh disenfranchisement and denial. The disenfranchisement was not a surprise but it has been extremely disheartening to have witnessed the denial and absolute calousness of so called Democrats and liberals.
It was in my own life time that people gave there lives over voting rights.
It is frightening that people can't even look at the most naked, blatant and obvious acts and see the racism.

:D

peace

Viel danke, meu amor.

peace

Hey swamprat it has been a long time. I was banned from DU about 10 months ago and then lost track of people. I hope everyone appreciates what Tinoire and crew have created here. It is so great to see all of the best folks from the old DU here and to feel free to speak one's mind.

And I value all the contributions. I'd like to join in -- unfortunately it's way past my bedtime, and I'm nearly braindead as a result.

But I do want to say this: I value each of you, value what you've said here, value your experience, value what you can teach me and others. THIS place, thankfully, will not allow the type of racism (and sexism and homophobia) that was so insultingly, crazy-makingly common at DU.

Do not submit. It is extremely critical that repression be met head on
and that it be resisted with every fiber in our being.
There is absolutely no compromise that can be made with it.
As a matter of fact, compromise is what oppression feeds on.
Without compromise it would be defeated. -- Harry Belafonte

i'm wondering if that's a part of the fear...

I realize some are offended by the use of the N-word in any shape or form.
The reality is the meme as stated in my subject line. Guns have been employed to control "niggers" and have even been imported from Israel to protect the Garden District from them.

... gotta keep dem niggahs from walkin' over to da West Bank to FREEDOM from death in N'awlins. Wes Bankahs can't have dem eatin' their food and water, or walkin' around in their neighborhoods.

peace

has now begun in earnest. A social crisis is being fomented which is appealing directly to the racial tensions in America. E-mails be flying through cyberspace calling the "faithful" to arms. This is NOT good.

and so many have taken the bait.

This distraction is also part of the 'experiement'. As you said earlier, poor "white people" are also in the crosshairs - they are too busy looking at "brown people" as the source of their immediate problems.

peace

As Karenina has pointed out in another post, people of color are not savage animals who snatch at "bait" with mindless fury.

The US is a nation born of genocide, suckled on slavery, and weaned on apartheid, and the weaning process has been largely confined to a bottle at board meetings.

And as someone else mentioned, maybe here, maybe elsewhere, the sin, in the eyes of the white and affluent, is not the racism itself, but being reminded of it.

To be fair, it is so deeply ingrained that most do not even realize it, and their indignation is quite sincere when they insist that they are not a bit racist, some of their best friends are black, and they (or their parents) even marched in Selma.

one man's conspiracy is another man's business plan

http://ductapefatwa.blogspot.com

Blog last updated as needed

peace

I tend to adopt the principle that my vocabulary is small enough and I don't need to make it any smaller.

Nonetheless, I regard that word as being so ugly, so hate-filled, so ignorant, so emblematic of the worst of our corruption as humans, that I (literally) avoid it like the Plague. I regard it as detestibly ugly no matter who uses it or how. I don't care what the color of the person's skin is, that word is ugly. I don't care what that person's gender is, that word is ugly.

All the rest ... fuck, shit, cunt, dick, bitch, prick, turd, cock, etc. ... don't even come close, even if added all together. Even the various other racial and ethnic slurs don't match up (and I won't use those, either).

When I hear it or read it, it's like someone farted in my face. If I'm in a room and hear it, I'm COMPELLED to leave the room. I just can't be around that stuff. I can tolerate a lot ... but not that. In my life, I've been around far, far too many people whose behavior I've detested who used that word.

If people I adored, like K___n or C______ra or T____a, said it around me I'd have a hard time forgiving them for it, no matter what the context, even if I said nothing.

To say it "offends" me doesn't even come close ... not within miles.


I can't figure it out, actually. It's a bit "out of character" for me to have such a deep-seated reaction. I'm really not into "taboos." It's not like I ever used that word, either. I don't ever recall not minding it -- I've always seemed to regard it like some toxic disease released into the air by it's mere utterance.

"Stupidity is the same as evil if you judge by the results." — Margaret Atwood
"There are two things which cannot be attacked in front: ignorance and narrow-mindedness. They can only be shaken by the simple development of the contrary qualities. They will not bear discussion." — Lord Acton

You can view this as a good thing - the word has been reclaimed, or you can view it as a bad thing - Black youth should have higher standards than White youth and not use either "nigga" or "dude."

Whatever your opinion of it, young people, both black and white will continue to use it and other words you may or may not like, spit on correct grammar and sentence structure (or enrich the language - again, it's all perspective) and shout "yo dawg" to each other while wearing clothing seven sizes too large, ride skateboards into buildings, and play Green Day and Fifty Cent really loud when they could be out mutilating their automobiles like the nice Latin American and Asian children.

one man's conspiracy is another man's business plan

http://ductapefatwa.blogspot.com

Blog last updated as needed

I'm pretty well aware of today's "segregated" use of language. I stand by what I posted, and regard such usage as appalling. I lived through the 50s and 60s, including living more than a year in Mobile, Alabama, which I left at the same time as "Mississippi Burning." I was born during a "race riot" and lived in the "inner city" during Detroit's '67 riots. Born and raised on the trailing edge of Detroit's "white flight," I have a relatively decent appreciation for the toxicity of racism ... for a "white guy."

I regard the use of that term by today's entertainers and street culture as disgusting, cynical, and - in some way - capitulation and exploitation. Instead of softening its impact, such usage has served to exacerbate animosities and offer some cover for the purveyors of hate.

"Stupidity is the same as evil if you judge by the results." — Margaret Atwood
"There are two things which cannot be attacked in front: ignorance and narrow-mindedness. They can only be shaken by the simple development of the contrary qualities. They will not bear discussion." — Lord Acton

A bastardization of Negro. I somehow always had a little more admiration for a racist who just used the straightforward vulgarity. In any event, I learned when I was very young that although expressing disgust with racist language wouldn't stop it, it would make it more endurable than remaining silent or going along. Being called a nigger lover just never was insulting to me. More of a complement, really.

one if by land, two if by sea..

That's a very fine class of folks. I hope God makes more of them.

one man's conspiracy is another man's business plan

http://ductapefatwa.blogspot.com

Blog last updated as needed

Ever heard that argument put forth by some Right-wing think tank types? The suggestion being that we give certain words power by our politically correct censorship of them. It is more of the same extension of denial that words have meaning and represent racist views and are used to condone hate-- in the same way we dehumanize the enemy as the other--allowing us license to abuse or kill without overt guilt.

And the smug sneer that always accompanied it. I also find in-your-face racists easier to deal with. The cards are face up on the table.

Flashback to 1961. Oh, the colours...

Debbie came to class with red eyes and invites to her birthday sleep-over. She passed them out to all of our pre-pubescent clique members but me (the only black kid in the room). She sat at the desk across the aisle from me and when she saw my puzzled, hurt look she burst out sobbing. "Daddy (a cop in Baltimore) said he deals with niggers all day and doesn't want any in HIS house when he gets home." I immediately jumped up and hugged her, Mr. Griffin sent us both out to the hallway where she sobbed on my shoulder and I reassured her that I understood it wasn't her fault.

The rest of the day my peers all gathered around Debbie to shore her up. My feelings were of no concern, Debbie's were paramount and I was ignored. When I boarded the bus to go home I. JUST. WANTED. TO. DIE.

Fast forward to later in the year as we were preparing for the split our group would experience in our Jr. High assignments.

Susan and I had always been in the same class. Her mom was our Brownie Troop leader and for Susan's birthday sleep-over simply had me crouch on the back floorboards with a blanket thrown over me to get past the guard house of their gated community. Once in, she musta figured that there would be no further problems as I was well-known and well-liked by the kids who lived there. We girls all went down to the community pier to dive off the board and splash around. Suddenly, Ellen (a year older than we, but someone with whom I'd always exchanged greetings in the hallways) started screaming, "THERE'S A NIGGER IN THE WATER! I WILL NOT SWIM WITH A NIGGER IN THE WATER!" Exit stage right. Susan gathered our group immediately and we retreated to the pier behind her house. No net. No diving board. More jellyfish. AACCKKK!

Pam and I always sat together on the school bus. She wasn't the brightest bulb in the box but we found our common ground.

Susan and Pam made a decision, which was, of course, immediately reported to me, that in Jr. High they would no longer be friends with me because they feared being called "nigger lovers." BIG POW-WOW on the playground. Cindy was disgusted, Janice and Debbie cried and I. JUST. WANTED. TO. DIE.

Tell me again how I should relate to words...

"Tell me again how I should relate to words... "

My heart breaks reading your post. For many reasons - and not the least for the little girl who was just another little girl - same feelings and wants as all little girls.

"Still I Rise" by Maya Angelou

You may write me down in history
With your bitter, twisted lies,
You may trod me in the very dirt
But still, like dust, I'll rise.

Does my sassiness upset you?
Why are you beset with gloom?
'Cause I walk like I've got oil wells
Pumping in my living room.

Just like moons and like suns,
With the certainty of tides,
Just like hopes springing high,
Still I'll rise.

Did you want to see me broken?
Bowed head and lowered eyes?
Shoulders falling down like teardrops.
Weakened by my soulful cries.

Does my haughtiness offend you?
Don't you take it awful hard
'Cause I laugh like I've got gold mines
Diggin' in my own back yard.

You may shoot me with your words,
You may cut me with your eyes,
You may kill me with your hatefulness,
But still, like air, I'll rise.

Does my sexiness upset you?
Does it come as a surprise
That I dance like I've got diamonds
At the meeting of my thighs?

Out of the huts of history's shame
I rise
Up from a past that's rooted in pain
I rise
I'm a black ocean, leaping and wide,
Welling and swelling I bear in the tide.
Leaving behind nights of terror and fear
I rise
Into a daybreak that's wondrously clear
I rise
Bringing the gifts that my ancestors gave,
I am the dream and the hope of the slave.
I rise
I rise
I rise.

Phenomenal Woman being my all time favorite.

I think the those years were full of that stuff. In third grade we had a lone black guy in my class. The class went to see the Nutcracker Suite at the public auditorium. All the schools came. We lined up outside in the Florida sun waiting to go inside. When our line was called we stopped at the water fountain at the entrance.

Calvin was right ahead of me in line, we were buds, and I could tell that there was tension building. Just as he got to the fountain a whole commotion started and he was told he couldn't drink there. My teacher had tears welling up in her eyes but she set her jaw and said that she would take him to the other fountain.

I sort of froze looking at the fountain and made a decision that I wasn't going to drink out of it either. I remember walking past my classmates that were still in line, the ones that used to tease Calvin (and me sometimes) and the looks on their faces was like 10,000 volts had gone through them. They really looked as if they were going to faint or cry or something.

I followed Calvin and Miss Parish around the side of the building where all the black kids from the other schools were lined up at the other fountain. She went to the front of the line and stood there while he got a drink. He had his head turned toward me and saw me standing there I guess. I looked at all the other black kids and they were glaring at me with open hostility. I looked back at Calvin and he just broke. I think he had seen a reaction register in my face when I was looking at the other kids. I sucked myself up to my full 4 foot height and just started balling. He was crying, I was crying, my teacher was crying, and the other black kids were watching, Schadenfraude, I think it is called.

Calvin had to sit in the balcony and I had to join my class up front. I still get depressed when I hear Tsychovsky, but I think everybody does.

one if by land, two if by sea..

... for a "white guy."

It's clear your deep sensitivity and identification with the oppressed has given rise to the righteous intolerance your first post displays. Do allow me to gently point out that appreciating toxicity and having been force fed poison are two very different experiences. Your sincere emotional reaction is still by all standards, vicarious.

Mom always said "nigger" is just a word. My dad called it a "state of mind of the person using it" when I came home from school sobbing the first time the "cannonball-through-the-heart" was lobbed at me. It's function in the American lexicon to dehumanize, deprecate and marginalize remains unchecked when used by white people. When black people use it, I respect their right to their antidotes considering state of mind, intent and context. I use it for ACCURACY.

I feel no necessity to censor the spelling in the context of a ubiquitous "meme" (with which I'm certain you're very familiar) that so blithely rolled off the tongues of southern boys in friendly discussions to spare anyone their personal shame. And as for "taboos" I've had quite enough of them imposed on me by whites, thank you very much.

Love you, TN and when you think "less" of and have trouble "forgiving" me for asserting my right to reclaim the language so long used to oppress me, so be it.

... whatever.

I believe we're deeply deluded when we attempt to make comparative measurements of the depth and breadth of our individual experiences, typically using similar superficial characteristics as those of us who maliciously mix the toxic soup that so pervasively marinates our souls. The "myth of the average" cannot be particularized.

Here's a facet of my core belief in a nutshell ...
No matter what it's excuse, hatred is a lose-lose. I do not buy into the common notion that the hater 'wins' and the hated 'loses' - because the very agreement with that notion perpetuates the zero-sum game of hatred. There is no 'right' way to hate a person. There is no 'better' way to be hated.

That's as succinct and accurate a summary of my core belief as I could ever hope to articulate. I'm far from any notion of "perfect" and wander off my path just like anyone else. As I've reread my post above, I've not been entirely happy with the way I described a feeling - a vague reflection of something that's spiritually true for me. Nonetheless, I'm still at a loss about how to do better.

There are some who'd assign levels of evil to the proclaimed basis for hatred -- assigning some greater degree of evil to a hatred based on something a person is powerless to change as opposed to something a person chooses. I'm not at all inclined to go along with that. After all, is it worse to hate someone for something that's essentially inconsequential or hate someone for choosing and adhering to a Positive Good? Who's more harmed? Which is a Greater Harm? If we get into the game of competing victimhoods, elevating the power of hatred to the point we let haters determine our relative Virtue (or Lovability?), are we not making even greater surrenders to hatred? I'm inclined to regard such common memetic constructs as antithetical to whatever I might regard as Enlightenment.

Insofar as the rationale of "reclamation" (or is it "resurrection"?) ... it seems to me that the same fool's errand that's claimed by those who'd display the Confederate Flag. Such symbols (both words and emblems), it seems to me, belong in the sewer - to be allowed to rot and biodegrade without further ado.

What bothers me is that I (we?) may be conferring a power upon such noises and symbols they do not deserve. I just don't know. I doubt anyone else can know it for me - nor can I for anyone else. That's about my path.


This is not easy for me to express. I just don't have the power of language to come close to what I see as a Truth - glimpses of which I've been occasionally overwhelmed by over the years. I apologize for however inept I've been in expressing this.

"Stupidity is the same as evil if you judge by the results." — Margaret Atwood
"There are two things which cannot be attacked in front: ignorance and narrow-mindedness. They can only be shaken by the simple development of the contrary qualities. They will not bear discussion." — Lord Acton

words devoid of a particular cultural, social, historical context, like the n word, very likely don't have the same meaning to everyone. my parents used the n word when we were growing up, and the meaning varied, depending on how it was used. young people using the word today very likely do not mean it in the way you might hear it. and i agree with you that some folks, like chris rock, make no bones about using it as a hate word, as a way to distinguish themselves from some others. i have a 61 year old friend, black and female, who uses the word like that...some much so, that i had to check her on it.
when i was growing up, some of my contemporaries used it to mean simply "guys," the same way some young folks use it today. i agree with richard pryor's take on the word, so it rarely passes my lips...except perhaps for emaphasis, or as karenina mentioned, accuracy. her reply was to my observation that some of the gun obsession in this country (probably a lot of it), is based on fear....the kind of fear the bush, inc and the media were so quick to exploit in new orleans (looting, shooting, etc). to use chris rock's tired meme: it's not black folks who inspire that fear.
oj is the perfect example: from honorary white man (and he played his part of that role with enthusiasm...until) to you know what. i bet he was told a zillion times that he was "articulate" and "different" and so on, and then he went and killed two white folks and the honorary status got revoked, and the retransformation ocurred.
babbling now, so i'd better get back to work.

First comes the authoritarian decree of the "appropriate" use of language and now the carefully parsed, exoteric musings of "spiritual superiority." This is quite the perfect example of why it is so very difficult to discuss racism with whites who, although deeply empathetic, are simply unable to break through their unconscious sense of privilege and delusions; in this case the "right" to define the terms and make the rules.

What I find very funny in contemporary usage of the "word-which-must-not-be-uttered" is that for the first time whites are faced with a cultural "taboo" and blacks get a pass having redefined it. Teenies be rappin' along with the track and by their OWN CHOICE, dropping the reference. Separates the wheat from the chaff. Doesn't bother me in any case as the text is the context is the text.

At long last the word has totally lost its sting. It doesn't offend me, it simply informs me as I look at it dispassionately in context.

But I hate them even more for making me hate them...

one if by land, two if by sea..

be savin' every last bit to help lock the suckers up!

Put A Little Love In Your Heart
(Annie Lennox duet with Al Green)


Think of your fellow man
Lend him a helping hand
Put a little love in your heart

You see it's getting late
Oh please don't hesitate
Put a little love in your heart

And the world will be a better place
And the world will be a better place
For you and me
You just wait and see

Another day goes by
And still the children cry
Put a little love in you heart
If you want the world to know
We won't let hatred grow
Put a little love in your heart

And the world will be a better place
And the world will be a better place
For you and me
You just wait and see
Wait and see

Take a good look around
And if you're lookin' down
Put a little love in your heart

I hope when you decide
Kindness will be your guide
Put a little love in your heart

And the world will be a better place
And the world will be a better place
For you and me
You just wait and see

Put a little love in your heart
Put a little love in your heart
Put a little love in your heart
Put a little love in your heart
Put a little love in -
Put a little love in your heart...

Silly to post this, but I think I had an Epiphany. Hope it lasts.

one if by land, two if by sea..

"Oh, if I could write the beauty of her eyes! I was born to look in them and know myself."

This line, from Shakespeare in Love (and loosely based on Twelfth Night, I believe), alludes to what is for me an aspect of love. When we take the time to see in another their own best image of themselves, absent the habitual prison uniforms and disguises to which we've sadly become accustomed, as a lovable and capable human being, it is then that we begin to love. In seeing that person, the nonsense game of hide'n'seek ends and true communication begins. It's really quite simple, I've found, even if often overwhelming.

"Stupidity is the same as evil if you judge by the results." — Margaret Atwood
"There are two things which cannot be attacked in front: ignorance and narrow-mindedness. They can only be shaken by the simple development of the contrary qualities. They will not bear discussion." — Lord Acton

Exactly.

So, when I try (clumsily and stumblingly) to describe my PERSONAL attitudes and reactions as honestly as I can, it gets called "authoritarian"?

Again with the crap that the color of my skin disqualifies my perspectives?

Fuck it.

"Stupidity is the same as evil if you judge by the results." — Margaret Atwood
"There are two things which cannot be attacked in front: ignorance and narrow-mindedness. They can only be shaken by the simple development of the contrary qualities. They will not bear discussion." — Lord Acton

I respectfully suggest that you read your own posts again and carefully consider how they reflect a particular, perhaps unconscious, communication intent. Perhaps if you re-read the entire thread, putting your hard and fast aversions "on hold" for a moment, space on another corner of the intersection will open up. Productive discussions of this topic begin the moment those who witness racism consider listening to and asking questions of those who live with it daily more important than aggressively stating their own points of view.

Did you read Tim Wise's piece "Rethinking Superiority?" TN, these dynamics are SO deeply ingrained that it is almost impossible to confront them directly. We're ALL victimized by sexism, racism and class warfare.

I do not speak for a color of skin or a gender or an ethnicity, no matter how much (or little) those attributes may have shaped (or misshaped) my experience. When I speak for myself, honestly and openly, and then feel like I'm being spoken to as some 'type' by someone who adopts a voice of speaking for a 'type' and not just themselves, I feel a disconnection. It's difficult enough to discuss some topics without that disconnect. It's SO difficult, in fact (at least for me), that it's all I can do, with a great deal of effort, to get a handle on my own thoughts and feelings and, however ineptly, attempt to express them. When that's not good enough, I have nothing else of any value to offer.

You say, "We're ALL victimized by sexism, racism and class warfare." I say, yes, these are toxins used to poison us, used even by those poisoned.

I weighed in on this thread with but a single point. (It's really quite ironic, I think.) All I did was describe how I try to manage my own personal ecology the best I can, in speaking or listening to (or even thinking) one word, without any attempt to oppress anyone's freedoms. (If I clumsily gave that impression, I apologize.) I tend to agree with the post-epiphany Richard Pryor. (See http://news.minnesota.publicradio.org/features/200.../ ) I obviously disagree with "most white people" and fully agree with Warren Edwards.

In the final analysis, maybe the best I can do is just "be the change I wish to see in the world." So, I'll just keep on trying to find my best.

"Stupidity is the same as evil if you judge by the results." — Margaret Atwood
"There are two things which cannot be attacked in front: ignorance and narrow-mindedness. They can only be shaken by the simple development of the contrary qualities. They will not bear discussion." — Lord Acton

Future NRA hero, Governor Ronald Reagan passed the Comstock Law when the Black Panthers were successfully using CA's "open-carry" laws to stop police violence in Oakland, in an attempt to, as BPP Minister of Information Eldrige Cleaver put it in 1968, "take the guns away from the niggers"

In the 19th century, several Southern states also regulated the sale of cheap handguns, presumably to keep them out of the hands of Black people, who might decide it was better to pull a cheap, copy-cat derringer out of their back pocket than get lynched for looking at a White girl.

hi, I'm new in this forum. Im a white, middleclass woman. Yes, these are exactely
the issues which are essential to our 'concept' of society and the constitution of power in order to determine the superior and inferior. It's all about the structures of power, which are based on race, social class and gender. People are afraid of the 'Otherness' and do not want to face with it. Probably their whole self concept would break down. Therefore it is 'saver' to look down on the 'Others' through the monocle of eurocentrism.

Welcome to PI sibasnu ! We're always happy to welcome new Progressive members! How did you find us?

Please stop by the Bar & Grill to introduce yourself

http://rafahtoday.org | http://gazatoday.blogspot.com | http://benjaminheine.blogspot.com
http://angryarab.blogspot.com | http://www.chris-floyd.com/war | LIGHT A CANDLE FOR GAZA

The law, in its majestic equality, forbids the rich as well as the poor to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal bread. -Anatole France

The rich man's table is the ooor man's grave...

is quite difficult in the real world and even at places like DU. There is usually a defensiveness and an air of condescension when these issues are brought up. This article points out some of the reasons for this. I hope we can discuss these issues more productively at this forum.

I like this point a lot:

What if non-white people look at us and can see it? What if they can see through us? What if they can look past our anti-racist vocabulary and sense that we still don't really know how to treat them as equals? What if they know about us what we don't dare know about ourselves? What if they can see what we can't even voice?

Well, I hate to break it to the generic "whitey," but we see right through you pretty well, through having to master your culture as well as that of our racial/ethnic group. But the other side of that is we will be only too happy to help you learn more about yourself if you come to the dialogue as a truly equal partner who listens to what people of color have to say and gives it the weight it deserves.

assumes the right to "define" racism and "instruct" me about its parameters.
I do believe it's crucial that whites begin to get it.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/artic...
A Nation's Castaways
Katrina Blew In, and Tossed Up Reminders of a Tattered Racial Legacy

By Lynne Duke and Teresa Wiltz
Washington Post Staff Writers
Sunday, September 4, 2005; D01

"White is not a matter of color. White is a matter of a sense of entitlement, a sense they are or ought to be entitled to specially protected place in society," he says. "But there are plenty of white folks on the bottom rung of society, people for whom whiteness isn't doing much at all.

Some may be awakening to the notion there's no use clinging to an identity that's doing them no good. If white folks start thinking of themselves as poor and dispossessed instead of privileged, it will change the way they act. We will see the beginnings of class conflict."

I'm ever so happy that you cannot see what color my skin is, the fact that I haven't combed my hair today, or my lack of teeth with which to chew my food.

What I want to convey in my messages is from the soul which doesn't rely on my skin color, my "place" in society, or whether or not I call the Creator "God" or "Allah."

After reading the messages in this thread, I wonder if I'll ever be able to look at myself in the mirror again without first asking God if I have done anything today to deserve looking into that mirror; because God created me, and although I happened to get "white," (Caucasian), skin, the soul of my being is not "white," "black," "yellow," "red," or whatever color someone wants to call another human being or his/herself, I have betrayed His perfect love by simply being a member of a race which has so brutalized and degraded people of other "colors" and must, thereby, forever beg their forgiveness.

Janet

nor is that where I, at least, am coming from. If you are working to make yourself an ally to people of color and are willing to work alongside us, I have no problem with your white skin.

I mentioned defensiveness earlier, and my opinion that it is not particularly productive. I hope you will take the time to reflect on that. Peace unto you.

Sometimes I just feel so guilty that, even though I haven't personally done anything to persons of other colors, religions, etc., far too many of my race have done so; and it makes me want to hide in shame.

It isn't just the African Americans, but all people of other races, especially the Native Americans. We stole this land away from them and put them into concentration camps which we called "reservations."

It is causing me to do a lot of soul-searching. I want to be able to work effectively with all other people, including yourself, without this guilt hanging around my neck like a lead weight. Lately, I have been fighting for the rights of the Palestinians at another board, only to be chastized by some of the other posters there; but I want to include people of all races and nationalities in my battle as well, and it's difficult without having "walked a mile in their shoes," if you know what I mean.

Perhaps by working together here in this forum board with peoples of other races and nationalities and sharing life experiences, I can overcome this guilt by effectively inter-relating with these people. I certainly hope so!

(I may be 64 years old, but I feel like a brand-spanking-new baby when it comes to some things such as this, and at times I find it difficult to say what I want to say without it being confusing for others to understand. Please, bear with me.)

Peace be with you!

Janet

These are difficult issues for all of us. I can draw an analogy as a male to sexism - it is difficult to really think about all the horrific things men have done to women over the course of human history. My male privilege shows itself in many ways, and I can only hope that experience, awareness, and a willingness to listen helps me to do something constructive about it.

I admire anyone who shows a willingness to face these issues - it is so much easier to just ignore them.

First, IMO, the author missed one fear: The fear of not having someone -- a whole group of someones, actually -- to feel superior to no matter what else is true. The lowliest white man has all women and all minorities to feel superior to: "I may be a royal fuck-up, but at least I'm not female, and at least I'm not black." It's pretty damn powerful, almost an aphrodisiac.

One of the most important things that we all have to come to grips with is that RACISM KILLS (as do sexiam and homophobia, and all the other oppressions.) If NOLA didn't show the world that for once and for all, it showed us nothing.

And speaking of NOLA, I am beside myself with astonishment, grief and fury over the fact that so many people don't seem to understand what racism even is. "Are you saying George Bush is racist?" "Oh, no, I'd never say ThAT." BULLSHIT. Of course the ass is racist. And so is everyone else in that administration AND anyone -- yes, ANYONE -- who can't see that it was the racism (and classism) killing NOLA residents more even than the flood, or who shies away from charging most of our leaders and our whole government as racist to the core.

It's as if they think racism (or any of the other oppressions) is necessarily a CONSCIOUS construct: "I really don't like black people -- I think they're inferior, so let's not fund the levees and then someday they may die."

No, perhaps the worst, but certainly the most intransigent aspect of racism is the part(s) based on SUBconscious or even UNconscious beliefs that there are people who simply don't count as much, for whatever reason. But the funny thing is, those people tend overwhelmingly to fall into the oppressed groups. "Oh, it's only black folk (so who cares?)," or "Oh, it's only poor folk (who are lazy and therefore deserve what they get) and old people (past their prime and useless) anyway."

IMO, what happened in NO had direct parallels to various Nazi round-ups and even medical experiments. I believe those in power were trying to get people who were trapped (whom THEY had purposely trapped) to riot so as to impose martial law, . I believe this article explains how this works, their M.O.:


Katrina and the Politics of Disaster
http://www.conspiracyarchive.com/Commentary/Katrin...

(Paul Craig) Roberts (former Assistant Secretary of the Treasury under Reagan) can hardly be called a conspiracy theorist. The former Assistant Secretary of the Treasury has recognized a certain game plan at work in the Katrina situation. This game plan has been used for centuries. Researcher Ralph Epperson elaborates:

The first step consisted of having the conspiracy's own people infiltrate the government (the "pressure from above.")

The second step was to create a real or alleged grievance, usually through either an action of government or through some situation where the government should have acted and didn't.

The third step consisted in having a mob created by the real or alleged grievance that the government or the conspiracy caused demand that the problem be solved by a governmental action (the "pressure from below.")

The fourth step consisted in having the conspirators in the government remedy the real or alleged situation with some oppressive legislation.

The fifth step is a repeat of the last three. The government does not solve the problem and the mob demand more and more legislation until the government becomes totalitarian in nature by possessing all of the power. (37)

If this method were fully implemented, it would be no exaggeration to describe the end result as being a Soviet-style America. One of the government agencies that have much to gain from the execution of this technique is FEMA.

Michael Brown may become a sacrificial lamb. However, the Agency he heads, FEMA, has much to gain from the Katrina catastrophe. The hurricane disaster may lead to calls for increasing FEMA's budget and power. In a hopes of silencing his critics, the President may favor such a move. America would then fall back to sleep, believing FEMA had its back covered in the event of another disaster. However, several researchers have recognized that FEMA has little to do with emergency relief. One such individual was deceased researcher Jim Keith. In his book, Black Helicopters Over America, Keith noted the following concerning FEMA:

FEMA is intended to assume the powers of government during "emergencies," even to the extent of taking over the powers of the President, if the situation is believed to warrant it. The organization is located in the top secret National Security Agency facility in Fort Meade, Maryland. In its more benign aspects, FEMA is seen as an "umbrella" agency that, during times of disaster or natural cataclysm, will step into to throw the stricken populace life preservers. But there are aspects of FEMA which have some worried, one being that only a small percentage, less than 10% of FEMA employees according to a Congressional investigation, is engaged in anything having to do with disaster relief. So what the hell is FEMA doing behind those closed doors at Fort Meade? Among other things, the agency is engaged in compiling computer records on millions of Americans, to provide a database for CAPS, Crisis Action Programs, to be deployed whenever the non-elected bureaucrats of FEMA anticipate something which might compromise almighty COG, what they term the "Continuity of Government." (108)

-- more at link --

The poor blacks and whites thusly trapped were simply expendible. And that, of course, is far, far worse than the racist "benign neglect" that so many people imagine because it was ACTIVE harm, active murder.

It's beyond horrific, and it's very frightening. We crossed some line in NO, and I truly believe those who have thought about leaving this fascist nation need to do so now. Poor African Americans and whites were the canaries in the coal mine, or perhaps the Jews rounded up for the Warsaw Ghetto. (There's probably a more direct Nazi Germany parallel that history-challenged me is unaware of.)

Do not submit. It is extremely critical that repression be met head on
and that it be resisted with every fiber in our being.
There is absolutely no compromise that can be made with it.
As a matter of fact, compromise is what oppression feeds on.
Without compromise it would be defeated. -- Harry Belafonte

It's a crying shame that, all too soon, life will return to "normal," and all too few will give NOLA a second thought.

There are far, far too many poor blacks - and whites - in this country who cannot afford to leave or to change their immediate surroundings, and then there are far, far too many who have the wherewithall but don't give a damn.

Peace be with you!

Janet

"normal" to return to. The social contract just got ripped up and flushed.

Should Americans with the resources to do so leave and watch the extermination of other concentrations of poor on the BBC or TeleFrance?

Or should they stay until they too become poor?

There are no easy answers, as is the case with the question of what to do about poverty itself.

Both "left" and "right" tend to be stuck in a sort of glib denial.

"Well if we elect my favorite politician he will reduce the cost of health insurance by $1000 a year"

"People shouldn't have kids if they can't afford them."

"Communities should get involved"

"Stop giving them a damn check every month."

You get the idea. While many proposals like this have some merit, few indicate much of a will on the part of the American public to deal with the problem at all, or even much awareness of it.

Obviously reducing the cost of health insurance will be of limited benefit to those who cannot afford health insurance at all, and while few can argue with the idea of postponing reproduction until one can afford a child, this sound advice does not address the question of what should be done with all the children whose parents, sadly, did not heed it.

Community involvement sounds great. Maybe every family in an affluent community could donate some land and money to build low income housing right there in the suburb. This could be voted on at the town hall meeting. Right after the traditional annual vote not to allow public transportation into the county.

Or we can cut to the chase, stop all the feeble excuses for social programs that do exist, sort of, and watch hilarity ensue. If we cut off welfare checks, maybe the family members who are getting $6.50 an hour at Wal Mart can take them in, or get them Wal-Mart jobs too. Then they can all go live under the overpass together, and throw rocks at your car.

The reality for both right and left is not whether you will pay, but how much you will pay and what for: Sustain, warehouse/imprison, or exterminate.

one man's conspiracy is another man's business plan

http://ductapefatwa.blogspot.com

Blog last updated as needed

them on their racism, as if the sin is not racism but pointing it out.

All I want in 2007 2008 2009 is 1) U.S. troops out of Iraq, 2) Single-payer health care, 3) Bush and his cohorts put on trial for war crimes in the Hague, and 4) A kindly, humorous, highly intelligent left-leaning, middle aged significant other. (I would have added "well-developed mass transit and inter-city rail," but I didn't want to seem too demanding.)

the OUTRAGE, I tell you, the OUTRAGE... That's how the definition of what "it" is remains controlled by folks who don't know what "it" is.

I'm sorry I missed it earlier. I posted similar items on another board and got poo pooed for brining up the the racism aspect. Of course we are witnessing extermination of classes of people too, the social Darwinian aspect, but race plays an important role in this NeoNazi experiment.

I hope you can see this little animation of mine. It really disturbed a lot of people, one way or the other, but this is how I see it in a nutshell.

peace

So sorry, we count (not) you as collateral damage. Isyown fault bein' in "bad company" an'all.

Am I in Cassandra mode FREAKING OUT that a race war is being fomented in the United States of America???

And seeds sown in fertile soil, carefully nurtured, will sooner or later grow tall as sure as the sun shines.

Or if you prefer to think of it as having previously been a cold war, it would be warming up.

However, as is my custom, I checked the Washington Webcam, and it is free of angry hordes, and no million man marches are scheduled, so perhaps it will be one of those assymetrical wars...kind of like Haiti and Jamaica around the time of the French correction.

one man's conspiracy is another man's business plan

http://ductapefatwa.blogspot.com

Blog last updated as needed

The 'experiment' is under way. Let's see how Americans react to genocide and ethnocide.

As I just said in another post, maybe McNew OlreansLand will become a theme park as well as a new location for torture facilities. Guantanamo passed the test, so perhaps they can stop outsourcing their torture experiments and move it to the mainland. After all, dey jus' brown people.

peace

to watching thousands of their own countrymen die slowly because their beloved government feels it is best.

More to the point, we have seen how Americans do not react.

5 PM Washington webcam check, no hordes, no pitcforks, no torches.

one man's conspiracy is another man's business plan

http://ductapefatwa.blogspot.com

Blog last updated as needed

What makes it difficult is the complexity und alle Spieler beschäftigt im Vorlagenplan.

peace

The satirical magazine The Onion once published a mocking travelogue. “Woman who ‘loves Brazil’ has only seen four square miles of it”, read the headline. Some of the syrupy tributes to Nawlins from writers who couldn’t tell a housing project from a science project were reminiscent of that. The obituaries were all Tipitina’s, voodoo, streetcars named Desire and give my regards to Bourbon Street. Package-deal country, in other words.

Professor Longhair has been dead 25 years, folks. Louis Armstrong’s trumpet sells Kodak cameras now. Essex produces more good bands and if you want to see Dr John he’s at the Royal Festival Hall and you can walk home without an armed guard. New Orleans’ French Quarter keeps the spring breakers and tequila-slammed weekenders amused but the reality is a tiny, claustrophobic tourist trap. Every visitor is given a map of a grid the size of Romford and warned never to venture outside. Beyond that lies the true city, only visited in colourless government surveys and reports, coldly documenting a place beyond care, while doing nothing to address its disease.

Last year, a plain-clothes police deputation fired 700 rounds of blanks in a New Orleans ghetto as an experiment. Nobody reported gunfire. There were 265 murders in the city in 2004 and 192 up to mid-August this year.

For every four citizens arrested for murder, only one is convicted because of the difficulty obtaining witness statements. The murder rate is ten times the national average (incredibly, an improvement on the mid-1990s, when it was 15) and of the 78 worst schools in Louisiana, 55 are in New Orleans. Of the black community that accounts for 67 per cent of the population, half exist below the poverty line.

There is no minimum wage and the waiters and dishwashers propping up the tourist trade are not well rewarded. Still, there is some good news. “The city has one of the highest murder rates in the country, but 99 per cent of it occurs in the projects,” announces an estate agent’s website, cheerily. So that’s all right, then.

The suggestion has been that the breakdown of society witnessed in New Orleans could not happen elsewhere. Wrong. The city has extreme problems of violence and deprivation, but the economic apartheid inflicted on America is a wrong turn away in most cities. Go west of Constitution between central Washington and the RFK Stadium, walk the length of Broadway, get lost in Detroit. The all-consuming civilisation that America wishes to export globally is no more than a pretty theory. Like Marxism, in practice it mutates horribly.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,21131-1766...

"The all-consuming civilisation" = global fascism.

And since capitalism depends on an underclass, these drowned and displaced folk are indeed canaries in the coalmine...

They are the first wave of death and despair that will befall most of the world's population as the corporatocracy grows.